Forum Activity for @Dave I

Dave_I
@Dave_I
09/21/17 11:37:40AM
533 posts
Translating Hypnotic Language


In the video example below, Anthony Jacquin demonstrates an Erickson style pace and lead induction. This is a pretty classic example of what Erickson did regarding utilizing, and the pace and lead is important here. Even though he's doing "Ericksonian hypnosis," he is not talking a bunch of nonsense or linking leftfield stuff with the sound of his voice. There is a more measured and sane sort of patter to his presentation.


In this one, that I've linked numerous times, John Overdurf uses an Ericksonian style with revivification, contrasting it with the more stripped down way it is taught in NLP. I do not think he is taking shots, so much as pointing out the difference between doing it mechanically as a learning tool and doing it more conversationally.

In both of those cases, and when you watch Erickson speak, those things are subtle. Embedded commands can work, however they are not magical words or things that need to be shouted out. They are subtle and just a part of the equation. And you build compliance with yes sets, having rapport, and lead in more logical small steps especially at first. Also, as you have rapport and go into trance first (which seems to be a big part of what Erickson was doing, at least later in his career), it is a gentler process.

Just taking a look at your example:

init:Hi All, "You're listening to the sound of my voice which makes you aware of the temperature of the air because you can begin to notice your breathing, and as you become more aware of your breathe in after your breathing out momentarily, now you might know a particular delightful memory that makes you smile and feel good, about that." That's  right!!!


Along with Barry, I would wonder the intent behind something like that. Just structurally, though...Linking listening the sound of your voice to awareness of the temperature is too random and there is no real pacing. If I were to say as you are reading this and interpreting my words, you may begin to wonder the point of this writing. And as you continue to read, and are perhaps sitting in that chair, you could allow your attention to focus on the temperature or the air. And as you are focusing on whatever your attention is on, you can continue breathing, and there is no need to focus on the muscles in your neck, you can just keep reading and that means your attention is already drawing you deeper, is it not?

Now, that was not really going anywhere, and not terribly amazing or anything. However, it was a pretty straight-forward pace/pace/lead for a lot of that. You pace things that you can verify OR that they have to be doing (reading/listening, in this case, breathing is pretty safe, focusing on something), and then lead to things that are pretty much given. You can "because" things in, in rather small steps, after you have been going at it for a bit. But they should not be too radical a departure from the last step. If they accept the lead, great! Keep going. If not, you can say "or not," or "I'm not sure if you are already experiencing tingling in that hand, or if you are just focusing your awareness on them, and that means whatever it is I say because I'm a conversational hypnotist" or whatever.

As for using the patterns in conversation (in a hypnotic session or otherwise). Subtly. It depends on the task. If convincing somebody to buy a dishwasher, you can use that sort of pace and lead to have them imagine life with your beloved dishwasher, and provide reasons how that might help them enrich their lives. You could cross some ethical boundaries if you push that too far, however you can guide them to consider something. In a normal conversation, I think something like Clean Language can be used pretty gently to change their focus. However, to just throw out some Erickson-derived or inspired-by patterns bluntly, with "That's right!!!!!" every other sentence, you're going to come across like your chemistry has been altered. If having some fun with friends, or doing hypnosis with people at a bar or party, and having a go at it conversationally, I think conversational hypnosis can work fine. You just do it subtly and smoothly, realizing all the usual rules still apply. As for covert indirect conversational hypnosis where your intent to hypnotize them is hidden, I would not recommend that.

Dave_I
@Dave_I
09/21/17 09:12:47AM
533 posts
What videos would be useful?

I think ones where you pace and lead. That can be any of them, but ones like the Leisure Induction (for which Graham has a great book that is money well spent, by the way) where you do not just proceed necessarily systematically, but elicit details and proceed as they go into trance would be great. That can apply to any induction, I suppose, however some would be better and showing how you build the process based on eliciting a certain state or certain responses. Even though I logically know that, it is nice to see more of that sort of pace and lead and pinpointing where you notice X and why that led you to Y and ultimately Z. The Fractionation Conversation kind of seems like a similar one, and the My Friend John induction as well (I really have not seen videos of that one done on its own as a full blown induction either).

I think a good video/tutorial of The Confusion Induction that gives some insight into your thought processes and what you see that let you know when and how to proceed and ultimately stop would be nice. It is too easy, I think, to just ramble on in a confusing way, possibly using mumbo jumbo, or even effectively getting them in loops or whatnot, and just guessing when you've built up enough response potential or gotten them loosened up enough to get on with it. I can see going on too long or going for the punchline, as it were, and I have not seen many great examples where the process is really explained along with the thoughts of the hypnotist at each step along the way. Kind of the same with the Sensory Overload Induction for a lot of the same reasons. How to effectively build the induction, proceed through, and based on the client knowing (or improving) when to proceed and not get caught up in your own confusing or sensory-rich language. Ditto with the 7+or-2 induction. I am not sure I have seen any demos of that, just read about it, and it shares elements of confusion or sensory overload.

Those are my suggestions. Mainly, and in no particular order: 


  • The Leisure Induction
  • The Confusion Induction
  • Sensory Overload Induction
  • 7+or-2 Induction

Really though, especially for a tutorial, the induction almost seems secondary to reading and adapting to the client. Even the Elman Induction or Handshake Interrupt, it is less about the steps than about the testing or reading the client and knowing when and how to best proceed (more obvious in the Elman Induction, but even there you can mess it up by ignoring their signs). I hope that helps.

-Cheers

Dave_I
@Dave_I
09/11/17 02:35:01PM
533 posts
New Induction (Floating Candle)
Nice thoughts, Simon. A few thoughts...

First, having them hold the candle for extra catalepsy sounds like a variant worth
Simon Tebbenham:2: see, hear, feel bit - since I saw Overdurf having a go at that phrase, I tend to want to avoid it now - so more interaction possibilities with feedback.


I think you may be referring to this video. Either way, I love this so what the hell!
John Overdurf on the difference between NLP and Hypnosis in revivification

I think of the See/Hear/Feel bit as an outline, while the actual vocalization is the experience. But yes, making it interactive, and noticing what you see, where it is, the colors, making it vivid, the sounds, where they are coming from, the volume, tone, what you feel, where you feel it, where it moves to or it you can enhance it, make it more real, etc., etc. Not to mention eliciting and using their own words and experience. The difference to me between those two is pretty profound, and I find it is a great way to not just tell them, but to experience it right along with them.

I also love the olfactory dimension. Candles and matches have a certain powerful scent-association to me, very positive, and that would tie together nicely to me.

And yes, the "You may not have noticed" bit has some nice presupposition going on. It seems clever and inviting.

Dave_I
@Dave_I
09/11/17 01:36:36PM
533 posts
New Induction (Floating Candle)

Nice induction.

If you will allow a bit of a tangent...it occurred to me that this kind of works like (or maybe in fact, is) a leverage induction. Typically, I think of that as something like catalepsy for some reason, and perhaps I am attributing that to things like the handshake interrupt, ambiguous touch, or pattern interrupts in general where you stop the process. Anyway, being as this a very visual-based induction, I am wondering if this might be particularly useful either in capitalizing on the strength of visual types, or in priming the pump for doing visual phenomena. After all, if you start off having them hallucinate a flickering candle, that is a nice jumping-off point for having them visualize whatever you want them to picture, or NOT picture if going for negative hallucinations.

As a bit of an aside, I suppose you could induce/use catalepsy to elicit more of a focus on the body and tactile sensations as well, or creating/modifying internal dialogue for focusing on that element. However, I notice you also bring in the kinesthetic and auditory to the process later as well, so you do kind of cover all the based despite the move visual-heavy nature of the induction overall.

Short version, I like it. Especially the permissive nature that invites them to add motion, and the different senses. Thanks for sharing.

Dave_I
@Dave_I
08/31/17 08:54:46AM
533 posts
What Would You Do If Someone Plagiarized Your Work?
Hey
Kevin Cole:Just maybe... A peaceful resolution between her and Steven can be had. (Although I know better than to have expectations about such thing) I just know how quickly and powerfully an internet mob can pull out "pitchforks and torches" (especially these days) and I wouldn't want to see anyone be "burned at the stake" due to a misunderstanding and or poor judgment. It's my bedtime. Night all... 


I can appreciate that, and I hope (and suspect) most of us can agree with that sentiment. I hope for the same thing.

If she found Steven's process good, had mastered it, made it her own, then sold it as that, I think people would be less up in arms. It sounds like she planned on plagiarizing it verbatim before demonstrating enough competence with Steven's process to be an OldPain2Go trainer (apparently putting this in writing, which is pretty damning), then changed it dramatically after this story broke. So I think some of the anger is warranted.

I have not taken Steven's class yet, although I have talked to him, however I have talked to several who have and the results seem pretty legitimately impressive. That is something that should be acknowledged and if learned or integrated deserves some level of mastery. It just seems disrespectful to the process to NOT really learn it before taking it and selling it as something else, and it seems to make sense to do the best work you can, and earning the privilege or teaching somebody else's work. To plan on plagiarizing it (admitting it in writing, as I understand it), get called out, and change it radically pretty much at the last minute before teaching it to a group of (if that is in fact what happened), seems wrong to me.

I would still hope there could be a peaceful solution. If she valued the process enough to plagiarize it, then she should value it enough to master it and teach it properly. If she gains some mastery of it, and then changes it in a way that works better or is her own style, great! If she has a different side of the story, I would listen. It would be nice to see her make things right, presuming things went down as reported. I am a third-party just like I imagine most of us to be, so I have zero insider information. I do like transparency, however I am not out to burn anybody at the metaphorical stake. I would like to hear her do what is right in this situation. At this point I am just happy to be informed of the situation so I can make an informed decision, and hope for some peaceful resolution at some point. We are too small a community to be bringing others down or plagiarizing each other. I would much rather see us give credit where credit is due, build each other up, and let this field grow harmoniously. I feel like only good could come from that.

Dave_I
@Dave_I
08/23/17 02:07:59PM
533 posts
What Would You Do If Someone Plagiarized Your Work?
Simon Tebbenham:Who's JC?  There's a few JCs I admire - I hope it isn't one of the those big ones...


Hey Simon, not one of the big ones. If you look up "DrainThatPain" on Google, you'll see the JC being discussed is a "Lady" of "Trance." I've never met her and have only heard about this from online discussions, however it is pretty easy to put the pieces together as to the person being discussed if one were so inclined.

I am sort of curious how this plays out. It is one thing to take inspiration from somebody and make something your own, it is another to blatantly plagiarize. Of course, HTLive is going on as we speak, so it will be interesting if this catches up with her there or not as it sounds like more than a few people are aware of what's going on behind the scenes. Beyond that, I think Steven deserves recognition for that, for creating the process in the first place as well as for caring enough to not just give out trainer status to anybody. I think that legitimately helps to keep the quality higher, just in general terms. I am not as interested in vengeance as just giving credit where credit is due. I also have a vested interest in things getting out there that actually work, and not imitations that are inferior.

Dave_I
@Dave_I
07/18/17 08:19:54AM
533 posts
Certification in Hypnosis

That depends. In no particular order...

Where is said person located? That could impact recommendations for face-to-face trainings, online, digital, etc., although I would highly recommend at least some live trainings.

What type of hypnotist do they want to be? Any specialties or areas of interest? There is a range of areas one could specialize in.

What are the certification requirements for what they want to do? I have some certifications. I also know that some of my best trainings have not certification involved. However certain areas may require specific types of certification, so that's important to know.

Dave_I
@Dave_I
07/10/17 08:28:01AM
533 posts
Can hypnotherapy rewire the brain?
H.Y.P.N.O.S.I.S.:Can we stir the pot a bit more?  Is rewiring the brain, considering it could be done, not a bit over the top? [snip] Isn't having freedom a good thing?


I think "rewiring" as it is being described is more akin to modifying a program, or wiring two different lights to the same switch in your house. If you have a better metaphor, go for it, however neuroplasticity is described as the brain reorganizing itself by forming new neural connections. Those connections are literally your brain's connections, also known as [drumroll, please...] its wiring.

So to me, it does not seem to be over the top, nor something that we should even place in the realm of "could it be done." It really is just us using a metaphor that I think already exists in the context of Hebb's Law, and it is my understanding this is something the brain does automatically over your lifespan. It has nothing to do with restricting freedom and everything to do with taking a proactive role in our brain's neurological mapping. In fact, I agree that having freedom is a good thing, and I would argue this allows us to have more of it.

Dave_I
@Dave_I
06/28/17 06:04:01PM
533 posts
night terrors
Rick Paddock:
I recently had a client find relief from night terrors after using both a control room type of session and a managers meeting.  She wrote a nice testimonial to encourage others to try hypnosis to find relief.


Nice job, Rick!

Dave_I
@Dave_I
06/26/17 06:26:57PM
533 posts
After Emerging From Hypnosis, The Client Is Still Suggestible... REALLY?
Michael Ellner:In my experience clients are just as and in some case more suggestible before (Pre-) and after (Post) as during the hypnotic ritual.

Hey Michael, that makes sense. I remember an Erickson story about him failing getting a doctor into trance, (I believe the story is Erickson was intimidated by him or something to that effect). Anyway, after the session was over, when there was no pressure or expectation on either party's part, Erickson (I believe as the guy was reaching for the door to leave) asked the client something as if it were just an aside, and got the client to go into trance effortlessly. But that seems like how the audience at a stage show are often easier to guide into trance since they are not resisting or under any pressure to perform.