"I don't believe in hypnosis"

Created: 02/23/16 07:28:06AM by kathryn-monahan-sheetz

Last Update: 08/14/17 04:50:57AM by Fable Goodman
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John Cleesattel
@john-cleesattel

08/06/17 10:51:38PM

3,169 posts

I see this thread has been resurrected... good.

Here is how I handle it with a client, with my pre-talk.

Hypnosis is possible because capitalizes on two natural abilities we have.

 The first ability is our ability to automatically react to outside input, without involving the intellect.

 We learn how to do this via repetition.

 We do something over and over again until we can do it without even thinking about it.

 We call it learning the ropes, getting the hang of it, becoming accustomed to it, On the job training, etc.

Do you know how many repetitions it takes to begin making it an automatic reaction?

How many times would you have to do something over and over before you could do it without thinking about it? Go ahead..Take a guess.

The answer is 3 (this is where the rule of 3’s came from)

Would you like an example?

Please spell  “Stop” for me out loud.

S.T.O.P

Now spell  “Shop”.

S.H.O.P

Now spell  “Crop”.

C.R.O.P

What do you do when you come to a green light?

They  will normally say “Stop” or spell it out.

Tell them: “Umm… Green means Go”.

(even if they have heard this before and say GO… they will admit that STOP jumped into their brain.)

I think the reason we have this ability to make automatic reactions is to compensate for a limitation we have… to only be able to focus our attention on one thing at a time.

 Think about two people trying to talk to you at once… you can be aware they are both there and are both making noise… but in order to find out what they are saying you have to focus your attention on them… and you can only do so… one at a time.

It’s the same reason they don’t want you to text and drive.

A hypnotic trance state manifests whenever the focus of attention is inside the body, and what you are experiencing is being provided by your imagination in response to suggestion, instead of in response from sensory input.

Let me tell you a little bit about the imagination.

Most people think that their imagination is just their creative side… the part of them that comes up with all those neat ideas and solutions… but in reality, the imagination plays a much larger role in our day to day lives.

The base purpose of the imagination appears to be… to provide us with an understandable representation of what we experience or what we encounter.

Nothing screws us up more than if we don’t know WHAT IS GOING ON… or WHAT THE HECK IS THAT?

The imagination provides this understanding in a couple of different ways.

First; it provides an understandable representation of what our senses tell us.

We don’t get direct input from our senses… it’s interpreted.

As an example: Have you ever had a cut, a bruise, or a scrape… that you discovered?  And it didn’t hurt until you found it?

That was actual tissue damage that you were un-aware of… because when it happened your focus of attention was elsewhere… but once you found it… OW!

This lets you know that we don’t get direct input from our senses… it’s interpreted by and presented by our imagination.

Another way our imagination provides this understanding… is sometimes we don’t have all the information…

So the imagination will act as a comparator to memory, to provide the closest match to what we have experienced or encountered in the past.

This is why we can see patterns in things, and see faces and shapes in clouds… it’s all our imagination trying to make sense of our world to us.

So, again… a hypnotic trance state manifests…  whenever the focus of attention is inside the body, and the imagination is providing reaction to suggestion, instead of sensory input.

What literally happens during a hypnotic trance state is that we lose the ability to determine what is real and true… more accurately… we lose the ability to disbelieve… everything becomes true… just like before the age of 7 or 8 and we had to have the talk about the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, etc.

The value of everything being true… is our second natural ability… which is our ability to automatically adapt to a changing environment.

Think about getting into a cool swimming pool or a hot tub.

When you first get in it is “Oooohhh”, but in seconds, it becomes comfortable and refreshing.

That’s how fast we adapt… to anything we believe is real.

In a hypnotic trance state… everything is real…

So If I make a suggestion while you are hypnotized… and two conditions exist… you will automatically react to that suggestion… and your body will automatically adapt to the new reality.

The two conditions that have to exist for you to automatically react to suggestion are…

1.       You have to know how to react… If I asked you to start Dextroboping… what would you do?

I normally provide what the expected reaction is… so there is no confusion.

2.       There has to be no reason not to…  This is your natural protection. There is a part of you that never sleeps, never goes into trance, and is always aware… looking for attempts to control you without your permission. This is why they say you can’t be made to do something you wouldn’t feel comfortable doing.

So…If these two conditions do exist… you know how to react and there is no reason not to… you will.

 And your body will automatically adapt to the new reality.

That’s what hypnosis is… how it works… why it works… and why we get change because of it.

That said… I only do business one way… all my cards face up on the table. I will let you know what we are going to do… what you can expect to experience… and I will get your approval first… each step of the way… before we do anything.

No surprises… no verbal clutter.

Does that sound good?

Great!

Next, there will be no zombie-ism...You will be totally awake, alert, and aware for the entire session.

The session will also be very interactive, because I don’t know what you are experiencing… I will ask and will expect you to tell me.

Lastly; I don’t care if you close your eyes or not... it’s not required.

That said; we just had the talk about only being able to focus on one thing at a time… and for a hypnotic trance state I need your focus of attention inside your body.

So, if you are looking around the room, or focusing on something other than what I am suggesting… we will run into problems

Understand? Good!

Now, the big question on your mind should be… “Well… what am *I* supposed to do?”

I will give that to you in a metaphor.

If I asked you to close your eyes, and said… ” in a moment I will touch you on the arm…” how would you know when I touched you?

(the normal answer is… “Well, I would feel it.”)

We just had the conversation about the cut, the bruise, and the scrape… which was actual tissue damage that you were unaware of… because your focus of attention was elsewhere at the time.

So what we are saying is… that if your focus of attention is somewhere else… I could probably touch you on the arm all day long… and you’d never know.

The only way you WOULD know… is if you focused your attention on… “how does my arm feel” and looked for my touch… then there would be no doubt.

Now, I am not going to be touching you at all… but I am going to be suggesting that different parts of your body relax.

 I don’t want you to “try” and relax them… this is about automatic reaction… not willful compliance.

What I want you to do… is to monitor that part of your body and look for the relaxation.

What literally is going to happen is that your imagination is going to go…”They are expecting to feel relaxation… I am not getting it from my senses… so I will have to provide it… and it WILL.

When it does… I want you to lift the index finger of your right hand… I call that the “I feel it” signal.

When I see that… I will know that everything is working as it is supposed to and we can continue on.

If you don’t feel it… don’t raise your finger.

Then I know to find out what is wrong and fix it… or to shift gears and do something else.

 I know 15 different ways to hypnotize someone so don’t worry about it… but I need to know if what we are doing is working or not so I can know where to go next. Understand?

Great… are we ready to begin?

Simon Tebbenham
@simon-tebbenham

08/07/17 01:04:48AM

366 posts

That's one hell of a pre-talk John! Clearly paid by the hour ;)

John Cleesattel
@john-cleesattel

08/07/17 11:46:22AM

3,169 posts

Simon Tebbenham:
That's one hell of a pre-talk John! Clearly paid by the hour ;)

Takes right about 5 minutes... but I have zero fallout.

H.Y.P.N.O.S.I.S.
@hypnosis

08/07/17 01:13:27PM

1,011 posts

Condense. Let's get to it. Action!!

We learn by doing. We remember by repeating. Let's stop repeating stories that no longer serve us and create new ones that do. 

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
@daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

08/08/17 01:03:02PM

39 posts

Mark Tyrrell:
Personally I feel that hypnosis is a natural characteristic of consciousness and when used by a person during communication to hypnotise another person is a tool and like any tool can be used to heal or hurt and is not automatically therapeutic. Hypnosis can be misused (often unintentionally as with false memory syndrome) as well as used to transform lives.  

Mark:
Have you looked into "false memory syndrome?" Do you really believe that a hypnotherapist COULD or WOULD implant false memories of childhood abuse? In my practice I have dealt with way too many cases of physical and/or sexual abuse. I don't for a moment believe that any of these experiences weren't real, or could have been "planted" by a hypnotherapist.

Those who have looked into this "false memory syndrome" (as I have) tend to find those promoting it to be either compromised or part of the pedophilia practices themselves! In hypnosis we can (lovingly) help a person remember traumas and heal them. This can be dangerous to the "powers that be." Thus, there are, and have been, all kinds of methods to discount the stories of these experiences.
In truth, there are almost always cracks in the facade of respectability and people who come forward with tales of abuse. Usually, law enforcement and psychological/legal experts come to the defense of those accused and the investigations go nowhere. Sometimes, after the perpetrator is dead and buried do the stories surface again--such as was the case for Jimmy Savile, who abused children for decades and counted the Royal Family of England as close friends. Were accusations made about him for many years? Of course! Were they discounted or hushed, sure!

PLEASE do the research! Maybe with brainwashing one could create false memories, but never in standard hypnosis! That "syndrome" is part of the cover up. There is a movement called "Believe the Children." I think everyone in our profession should become knowledgeable on this subject.



Daniel

Inner Power Hypnosis & Coaching

 

James Hazlerig
@james-hazlerig

08/12/17 09:57:18PM

2,678 posts

There are a couple of ways I might reply to someone saying, "I don't believe in hypnosis," depending on my mood and my impression of the person I'm talking to. Here are a few:

"That's okay; hypnosis believes in you."

OR

"That's the great thing about science. It works whether you believe in it or not."

OR

"Most people who don't know what hypnosis really is don't believe it's real."

OR

"Yeah, I don't believe in spinach." When they express incredulity, I say, "I've seen spinach in a cartoon. When a guy ate it, he heard music and became super-strong. I don't think that's possible. I also don't believe in roadrunners or coyotes." If they don't get it, I go on, "Of course you don't believe in hypnosis, because all you've encountered is the cartoon version where people's eyes spin around and they become zombies. You're right not to believe in it. But of course real hypnosis is not what you've seen on TV."

James Hazlerig
@james-hazlerig

08/12/17 10:17:08PM

2,678 posts

[quote="Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt"]
as with false memory syndrome) as well as used to transform lives.   [/quote] Mark:Have you looked into "false memory syndrome?" Do you really believe that a hypnotherapist COULD or WOULD implant false memories of childhood abuse? In my practice I have dealt with way too many cases of physical and/or sexual abuse. I don't for a moment believe that any of these experiences weren't real, or could have been "planted" by a hypnotherapist. Those who have looked into this "false memory syndrome" (as I have) tend to find those promoting it to be either compromised or part of the pedophilia practices themselves! In hypnosis we can (lovingly) help a person remember traumas and heal them. This can be dangerous to the "powers that be." Thus, there are, and have been, all kinds of methods to discount the stories of these experiences. In truth, there are almost always cracks in the facade of respectability and people who come forward with tales of abuse. Usually, law enforcement and psychological/legal experts come to the defense of those accused and the investigations go nowhere. Sometimes, after the perpetrator is dead and buried do the stories surface again--such as was the case for Jimmy Savile, who abused children for decades and counted the Royal Family of England as close friends. Were accusations made about him for many years? Of course! Were they discounted or hushed, sure!PLEASE do the research! Maybe with brainwashing one could create false memories, but never in standard hypnosis! That "syndrome" is part of the cover up. There is a movement called "Believe the Children." I think everyone in our profession should become knowledgeable on this subject. DanielInner Power Hypnosis & Coaching  [/quote]

Daniel,

I have done my research. I have looked into False Memory Syndrome. Have you read Elizabeth Loftus's The Myth of Repressed Memory or Pendergrast's Victims of Memory? Loftus has literally done the research; she's the leader in actual memory experiments.

If you'd read their work, you'd know that no one accuses hypnotherapists of intentionally implanting false memories, but you'd also know that it doesn't take hypnosis to produce a false memory; in fact most of those who suffer from false memories were not working with trained hypnotists but with therapists with far too little understanding of hypnosis. Loftus has demonstrated in experiment after experiment that false memories are stunningly easy to create; Pendergrast shows how it happens in therapy and how FMS has destroyed lives and families.

It's also never been demonstrated that memories experienced in hypnosis are any more reliable than any other memory. Certainly, some memories experienced in hypnosis are accurate, but they are not reliable simply because they were experienced in hypnosis; in fact, hypnosis makes memories less reliable (because they are subject to outside influence) but more compelling.

Of course, if you assume that anyone who disagrees with you is part of a pedophilia cover-up, you're never going to recognize the truth about how memory works. In fact, you've probably decided by now that I'm a pawn of the pedophiliac conspiracy.

I realize that this is a sensitive topic. Far too many victims of rape and abuse are afraid to speak up, and far too often they are discounted. But that does not justify hypnotists clinging to outdated psychological theories, nor does it justify us traumatizing our clients with irresponsible methods.

Best,

James

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
@daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

08/13/17 12:19:42AM

39 posts

[quote="James Hazlerig"]
[/quote] Daniel,I have done my research. I have looked into False Memory Syndrome. Have you read Elizabeth Loftus's The Myth of Repressed Memory or Pendergrast's Victims of Memory? Loftus has literally done the research; she's the leader in actual memory experiments.If you'd read their work, you'd know that no one accuses hypnotherapists of intentionally implanting false memories, but you'd also know that it doesn't take hypnosis to produce a false memory; in fact most of those who suffer from false memories were not working with trained hypnotists but with therapists with far too little understanding of hypnosis. Loftus has demonstrated in experiment after experiment that false memories are stunningly easy to create; Pendergrast shows how it happens in therapy and how FMS has destroyed lives and families.It's also never been demonstrated that memories experienced in hypnosis are any more reliable than any other memory. Certainly, some memories experienced in hypnosis are accurate, but they are not reliable simply because they were experienced in hypnosis; in fact, hypnosis makes memories less reliable (because they are subject to outside influence) but more compelling. Of course, if you assume that anyone who disagrees with you is part of a pedophilia cover-up, you're never going to recognize the truth about how memory works. In fact, you've probably decided by now that I'm a pawn of the pedophiliac conspiracy.I realize that this is a sensitive topic. Far too many victims of rape and abuse are afraid to speak up, and far too often they are discounted. But that does not justify hypnotists clinging to outdated psychological theories, nor does it justify us traumatizing our clients with irresponsible methods.Best,James[/quote]

Hi James,
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the decades of paid "experts" who have testified, written books and articles defending certain practices that later were discovered to be total shams. Did you know that quite a few doctors in the 1950's claimed that cigarette smoking wasn't harmful? In fact, it was recommended as a good way for women to lose weight? Of course, many years later, unethical financial remunerations were discovered between tobacco companies and said physicians. Similarly, did you know the American Medical Association was sued by a Chiropractors association and it was proven in court that there was an organized campaign by doctors and the AMA to label Chiropractors as "quacks"?

Did you know that the original ("scientific") research study from which the countless media reports that eating eggs is dangerous because eggs unduly boost your cholesterol and that Americans should eat no more than one egg a week, actually was paid for by General Mills (the nation's largest cereal producer)? Did you know that despite media reports and what too many doctors tell their patients, that "chemical imbalance" has never been proven as a cause of depression, and that the Federal Trade Commission actually won in court against a major drug company because said drug company couldn't PROVE a line in their TV ad that said, "your depression MAY be due to a chemical imbalance"?

I could go on. Naivete can be charming, but considering how many subtle and not-so-subtle attacks we "fringe" hypnotherapists receive from the mainstream healthcare community, I welcome the opportunity to suggest it might be a good idea for you to be less trusting. Even the fact that the State of Texas bans you from calling yourself a "hypnotherapist" so you can only call yourself a "hypnotist" just like the stage hypnotists who do no therapy, is an example of this de-legitimizing trend.

So, no, I didn't read those books. However, I looked up "The Myth of Repressed Memory" and the Amazon description contains this paragraph:

"This book reveals that despite decades of research, there is absolutely no controlled scientific support for the idea that memories of trauma are routinely banished into the unconscious and then reliably recovered years later. Since it is not actually a legitimate psychological phenomenon, the idea of "recovered memory"--and the movement that has developed alongside it--is thus closer to a dangerous fad or trendy witch hunt."

Granted I have not, and will not, read the book, but it almost seems to question the well-established concept of REPRESSION. Now, to be fair James, I don't know about any training in psychology you may or may not have had. To my knowledge, there is no hypnotherapy school in the USA that requires let's say a bachelor's degree in psychology, although I have argued for such a policy on these forum boards. Not only is my undergraduate degree in psychology, but my master's degree is in psychology too. In addition, my Graduate Record Exam score in psychology was at the 99th percentile. In fact, it was a bit higher than the lowest score needed to be counted at the 99th percentile. One could make the claim that I had the highest score in the country that year! I could make the indisputable claim that not one person scored higher than me in terms of statistical significance.

Normally, I would end this post with a link to my website, where you would see that I not only make that claim here, but also on my website. Any of my competitors in Arizona could sue me for false advertising if I could not prove that claim--but they haven't, and I can. The problem is, the moderators of these boards seem to think when I post a link to my site that I am violating the rules by advertising something. Yet, a perusal of my site shows I sell NOTHING other than my hypnotherapy services to local clients! I find it highly unlikely that one of the few people who read my posts would live in the Phoenix metropolitan area and look me up for my services! If I were selling a book or classes for hypnotherapists on my website, then their removal of my links would make sense. I am not. I do it JUST so people can easily understand my background, which I list in detail on the Credentials page of my website. Nevertheless, I mention my background here just so you will understand I have a rather good understanding of psychology. (And please feel free to peruse my Credentials page, if you like.)

So, let's get back to the subject at hand. The fact that the book summary quoted above says there is "no controlled scientific support for the idea that memories of trauma are routinely banished into the unconscious . . . " already tells me there is something fishy going on here. If the author sets up the straw man that only "controlled scientific support" is valid for psychological principles, and discounts perhaps a century of clinical experience documented by some of the great psychologists of all time, then I am going to question the premise. Have you taken many courses in experimental psychology James? The history and systems of psychology? Well I have. One can pretty much design a study to prove or disprove whatever you want! Plus, there have been too many documented cases of various "scientific studies" just deleting cases that didn't fit their preferred (or paid for) theory! Let's remember that EVERY drug that was approved by the FDA and later withdrawn as dangerous was approved based on "scientific" studies!

Repression is a real phenomenon! A young woman who had only FOUR memories before the age of 12 is the reason I got into hypnotherapy. Over time we discovered she had been sexually abused as a child by her father, her father's friends and some of their children! And, in fact, most of those memories came back without the use of hypnosis. If you are going to HTL this month, please look me up and I will be happy to recount in person many of the numerous cases of repressed memories of physical and/or sexual abuse that have come out through my healing work. And yes, there ARE credible investigators who have looked into those writing books and articles on "False Memory Syndrome" who found the authors' motives and methods were quite questionable. It has been years since I read them, but I am sure a Google search will provide the answers.

I don't really care what some "scientist" or "psychologist" whose motives may be corrupt says on the subject! I have a decade of clinical hypnotherapy experience and forty years of working in various aspects of psychology and human behavior. So no, I don't think you are part of a pedophilia cover-up; I just think you are like too many I have encountered on these boards who are trusting and don't read books and studies with a critical/skeptical eye!

And, please let me know if you are accusing me of: "traumatizing our clients with irresponsible methods?" Because it sure seems that you are accusing me of doing that. So, if you are, please respond with just exactly how you think I am doing it.

Thanks for responding!

Daniel
Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist
Inner Power Hypnosis & Coaching

 

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
@daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

08/13/17 12:49:47AM

39 posts

James,

After finishing my response above I did a little Google search on Dr. Loftus. Is seems she has a whole cottage industry going for herself in "false memory syndrome!" In fact, most of the Google results are mainstream media articles touting her work! Isn't that interesting? (I'm sure you have no idea how many rich and powerful people are invested in covering up pedophilia in the USA and other countries!)

How much do you think Dr. Loftus makes as an "expert witness" in high-profile criminal cases when she testifies? How many perpetrators have gotten off scot-free as a result of her work?

Since you have to know what to look for, I thought I would provide a link to a website page that I totally agree with on the subject: "Facts about the Hoax of the False Memory Syndrome." In my opinion, EVERYONE who works in our field and especially those who read your post, should read that page and what it says about Dr. Loftus!

I hope this encourages you to dig a little deeper before supporting the work of someone who has been responsible for freeing many horrendously-guilty perpetrators, and I'm sure made herself rich in the process!

Daniel
Inner Power Hypnosis & Coaching

James Hazlerig
@james-hazlerig

08/13/17 07:13:27AM

2,678 posts

Ah, yes, Daniel, the old "if you get paid for your work, you must be dishonest" argument.

By that reasoning, I must say that I believe hypnosis is effective only because I get paid to do it. My choice to be a hypnotist couldn't have anything at all to do with my sincerely held views of the world or my belief that it helps people. I get paid and paid well, so I must be a hypocrite. Seriously? Of course, you're guilty of that, too, if you charge for your services.

Richard Nongard promotes mindfulness and hypnosis only because he sells courses. Scott Sandland and Richard Clark think a hypnosis convention is a good idea only because they charge money for it.  It's a sad and cynical view of the world, and I feel sorry for anyone who lives in that world.

And of course, the old "if mainstream media supports it, it must be part of the Evil Conspiracy."

For your information, I've watched and read attacks and criticisms of Dr. Loftus (and of Pendergrast), and I've also watched and read their works and interviews. I know which side I find more credible, and I know which side comes off sounding like paranoid loonies.

Then you've coupled that with "if someone was exonerated in a court of law, it's a miscarriage of justice!" Guess what? The accused is considered innocent until proven guilty. I'm thrilled that Dr. Loftus has helped innocent people avoid incarceration, though the accusations against them by people suffering from FMS have still destroyed their lives.

Not far from where I live, a family that ran a daycare was accused of horrific crimes and convicted based on the testimony of children who made impossible claims against them. They have only recently been exonerated and released, decades later. The child therapist who started the crusade against them is STILL IN PRACTICE ... 

Have you ever noticed that when hypnotists are doing regression to uncover "repressed memories," the unifying factor in different "repressed memories" is always the hypnotist? All the alien abductees go to the same hypnotist. All the victims of Satanic Ritual Abuse end up with the same hypnotist. You'd think that just once, one of the Satanist's victims would end up with the Alien hypnotist, and vice-versa, but that literally never happens.

Look, Daniel, I know I'm not going to convince you. Any evidence I present that is contrary to your views will be seen as an indication of how deep and terrible your pet conspiracy is. But I do hope that my posts will be read by newer hypnotists so that they won't get sucked into your nonsense.

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