Anxiety Treatment for Drug or Alcohol Abuse Patients

Created: 07/23/17 01:09:42PM by daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

Last Update: 09/15/17 12:21:44PM by Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
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H.Y.P.N.O.S.I.S.
@hypnosis

08/02/17 02:47:16PM

1,011 posts

 

 

 

Daniel, without controversy, we've got nothing to quibble about!

 

 

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
@daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

08/06/17 05:08:23PM

46 posts

Barry Neale:
Hi Daniel, Just to address one point that you seemed to want to ridicule. "A sense of significant human connection?" I am really trying to control myself here gentlemen, and abide by the rules of this site. However, as much as I try, I cannot fit my educational or professional experience into that paradigm." You might want to expand your knowledge and read this article from Psychology Today. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-and-sex-in-the-digital-age/201509/the-opposite-addiction-is-connection    

Hi Barry,

Thanks for providing the link to that Psychology Today article. I was a regular reader decades ago, but have not been too impressed with the magazine in a long time! So, after reading that article, I would agree that those who have poor/traumatic childhoods are more likely to have emotional problems and are more likely to abuse substances and/or become addicts. "
Meanwhile, those who don’t experience secure early-life attachment tend to struggle with trust and connection later in life." So far we are on the same page.
So, there is a correlation between having a poor childhood and addiction, and struggling with trust and connection. NOW HERE IS THE RUB! Correlation does not prove causation! Rather than concluding that to understand and help addicts we need to explore and heal their childhoods--which I totally agree--he points to another consequence of a poor childhood and makes that the cause! So, the author, a licensed social worker who from his bio is considered a subject-matter expert on a lot of mainstream media outlets, CONCLUDES the problem lies in the addicts inability to connect with others!
He provides no proof, although he (foolishly) uses AA and other 12-step programs as support for his theory. Apparently, they are onto something and have been for many years! I'm sorry, I am now ROFL! Apparently, the author (Robert Weiss) who has been quoted in the New York Times and CNN and has written books on intimacy and addiction doesn't know that the long term success rate of Alcoholics Anonymous is at best ten percent! (Look it up.) 

So yes, Barry, while perhaps my original response was a bit more confrontational and honest than is the norm on this site, I stand by my original statement. I do thank you for providing me the motivation to renew my poor impression of Psychology Today nowadays, and would suggest that some looking into and analyzing psychological research studies would be worthwhile. There I have an advantage as I have taken a number of undergraduate and graduate courses where that was covered, and learned there are so many sources of BIAS in most of those studies that we should look at the conclusions with an air of skepticism!

Now I can understand that looking at the author's biography you might have been impressed. Years ago I dabbled in public relations and if I bothered to mention all the outlets where I have been quoted you would be impressed too! Yet, what I discovered was that people who are quoted or write articles in the media are no more experts in the fields than you or I am! They either have an in, or they have a good PR representative. It really isn't difficult! The article you pointed out, is a very good example! In my opinion, the author is an idiot! And, if I had the opportunity, I would gladly say that to his face! If I wanted to embarrass him, I might ask him to compare scores on the Graduate Record Exam in Psychology he took. Trust me, he didn't beat me!

However, as I said I DO appreciate you providing the reasoning for your comment. Now I understand where your conclusion came from, but the problem is the article didn't strengthen your case! The mainstream media lies! I have read over and over that CBT has been PROVEN "effective" to treat anxiety. So, I looked into those research studies that prove it! What a joke! The system is corrupt boys and girls! Fortunately, we have a method that actually works and has worked and been proven for over 100 years!

PLEASE don't believe the media lies!

Daniel

Inner Power Hypnosis

H.Y.P.N.O.S.I.S.
@hypnosis

08/06/17 05:19:02PM

1,011 posts

So in tune with the deeper side of reality, bravo.
"Correlation does not prove causation!" 
"The mainstream media lies!" 
"...we have a method that actually works..."
Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt:
Barry Neale:Hi Daniel, Just to address one point that you seemed to want to ridicule. "A sense of significant human connection?" I am really trying to control myself here gentlemen, and abide by the rules of this site. However, as much as I try, I cannot fit my educational or professional experience into that paradigm." You might want to expand your knowledge and read this article from Psychology Today. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-and-sex-in-the-digital-age/201509/the-opposite-addiction-is-connection    
Hi Barry,Thanks for providing the link to that Psychology Today article. I was a regular reader decades ago, but have not been too impressed with the magazine in a long time! So, after reading that article, I would agree that those who have poor/traumatic childhoods are more likely to have emotional problems and are more likely to abuse substances and/or become addicts. "Meanwhile, those who don’t experience secure early-life attachment tend to struggle with trust and connection later in life." So far we are on the same page. So, there is a correlation between having a poor childhood and addiction, and struggling with trust and connection. NOW HERE IS THE RUB! Correlation does not prove causation! Rather than concluding that to understand and help addicts we need to explore and heal their childhoods--which I totally agree--he points to another consequence of a poor childhood and makes that the cause! So, the author, a licensed social worker who from his bio is considered a subject-matter expert on a lot of mainstream media outlets, CONCLUDES the problem lies in the addicts inability to connect with others! He provides no proof, although he (foolishly) uses AA and other 12-step programs as support for his theory. Apparently, they are onto something and have been for many years! I'm sorry, I am now ROFL! Apparently, the author (Robert Weiss) who has been quoted in the New York Times and CNN and has written books on intimacy and addiction doesn't know that the long term success rate of Alcoholics Anonymous is at best ten percent! (Look it up.) So yes, Barry, while perhaps my original response was a bit more confrontational and honest than is the norm on this site, I stand by my original statement. I do thank you for providing me the motivation to renew my poor impression of Psychology Today nowadays, and would suggest that some looking into and analyzing psychological research studies would be worthwhile. There I have an advantage as I have taken a number of undergraduate and graduate courses where that was covered, and learned there are so many sources of BIAS in most of those studies that we should look at the conclusions with an air of skepticism! Now I can understand that looking at the author's biography you might have been impressed. Years ago I dabbled in public relations and if I bothered to mention all the outlets where I have been quoted you would be impressed too! Yet, what I discovered was that people who are quoted or write articles in the media are no more experts in the fields than you or I am! They either have an in, or they have a good PR representative. It really isn't difficult! The article you pointed out, is a very good example! In my opinion, the author is an idiot! And, if I had the opportunity, I would gladly say that to his face! If I wanted to embarrass him, I might ask him to compare scores on the Graduate Record Exam in Psychology he took. Trust me, he didn't beat me! However, as I said I DO appreciate you providing the reasoning for your comment. Now I understand where your conclusion came from, but the problem is the article didn't strengthen your case! The mainstream media lies! I have read over and over that CBT has been PROVEN "effective" to treat anxiety. So, I looked into those research studies that prove it! What a joke! The system is corrupt boys and girls! Fortunately, we have a method that actually works and has worked and been proven for over 100 years! PLEASE don't believe the media lies!DanielInner Power Hypnosis

 

Graham Old
@graham-old

08/08/17 08:02:58AM

2,258 posts

There's that mocking tone again, Daniel.

You seem to get a kick out of it. I'm just not sure that it's conducive of productive dialogue.

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
@daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

08/08/17 12:21:13PM

46 posts

Graham Old:
There's that mocking tone again, Daniel. You seem to get a kick out of it. I'm just not sure that it's conducive of productive dialogue.

Hi Graham, always nice to hear from you!
Yes, I do look at the world with a critical/cynical eye. I do not think we are particularly helpful when we sugar coat messages. I was addressing someone who presumably is in our profession, who got a bit huffy/superior about the "proof" of his theory about addiction being derived from one Psychology Today article!


At it's inception, hypnotherapy was once mainstream. Now it is considered "fringe" and the mainstream approaches are much more expensive, ineffective (in general) and often cause more harm than good. Addiction and substance abuse are big problems. People die from them all over the world. Lives are at risk and the article cited never should have even been published. How can we put faith in a media that is so in the pocket of the big pharmaceutical companies? There are only two countries in the world that allow advertising of prescription drugs directly to consumers: the United States and New Zealand. I believe the current opioid addiction crisis is a result of the policies of pharmaceutical companies.

People die every day from drug and alcohol abuse. This is a very serious problem and I started this thread with what I believe to be a valid insight. I received some support for my suggestion, but in total very little. That is disappointing. I believe in the scientific method. If someone sees a flaw in my logic or approach, I would love to hear it. However, if that article is very flimsy--and they don't even realize it is flimsy--then my tone might be less than supportive. This is not a college class. I am not here to teach or support young students eager to learn. If everyone is "nice" then ideas and methods that make no sense or don't work will remain unchallenged on this discussion board. People will assume that person is correct.

I cannot say how it is where you live, but here in most of the United States, if you make a suggestion to your auto mechanic or plumber about how he/she should fix something and your suggestion makes no sense . . . yes, most likely that person is going to laugh at you! That is a natural reaction. If I am discussing something with someone with much greater expertise than mine, I am either quiet or will ask some questions for greater elaboration. Did anyone do that on this thread? I don't believe so. A few kind of agreed with me, and then most just provided their solutions or reasons why I am wrong. So yes Graham, if someone attempts to tell me how I am wrong, then their argument needs to hold water. If it does not, I will point out the error of that way of thinking.

Yes, I DID enjoy tearing into the author of the article. Only because I am really tired of "experts" with terrible track records and faulty logic (and lies) dominating the media! It is a battle every day. The healthcare establishment in America and probably many other countries wants to lie and denigrate hypnotherapy because we can successfully compete. It is no accident that Hollywood puts out story lines where people are forced to do things they don't want to do under hypnosis! It is no accident that here in Arizona, if you look up the local PUBLIC SERVICE stop smoking program, which is run by the Arizona State University School of Public Health (public school) there is no mention of hypnosis, nor do they have any information about it if you call them (I have).

I battle every day in my office against the damage done by idiot doctors, psychologists, counselors and psychiatrists who not only usually aren't helpful, but often do damage to my patients.

Perhaps, a better question is why are you NOT upset and disparaging of people with incorrect beliefs and practices that are on some level practicing hypnotherapy? To me that is like a poorly trained auto mechanic who seemingly fixes your brakes, but a week later your brakes fail and you plow into a mother with her baby crossing the street! Is that a time to be supportive? Or, is that a time to say, "hey, either learn your craft better or find a new occupation!"


Patients/clients with substance abuse problems DO put themselves and others at risk! So, I take my work and this profession very seriously! If I wanted to go into a profession where I always made "nice-nice" and never confronted, I would have become a licensed psychologist! I did not and am not. I am a life coach and provide helpful insights and/or suggestions to my patients--as well as hypnosis. I am also confrontational when appropriate. A small percentage can't handle it. The others use the information to learn and grow and do better! It used to be called "tough love." It works!

I hope that helps you understand my point of view.

Daniel

Inner Power Hypnosis & Coaching

Graham Old
@graham-old

08/08/17 03:23:12PM

2,258 posts

No, not really, but you are welcome to it.

Incidentally, when you are discussing things with Barry, you are interacting with someone with 'much greater expertise than mine.'

And if you hang around the forums long enough, you might learn that there is a whole spectrum between sugar-coating and ridiculing. Barry and I have often disagreed, but Id guess that he's never felt disrespected by me.

You're right. You received few comments. Make of that what you will. However, my feeling is that you completely misread the PT article. Yet, given your ROTFLing and idiot-calling, I am far from inclined to bother discussing it with you.

What if your plumber had simply underappreciated what was said to them and had unfortunately lost the humility to learn new lessons? 

You are right, this is not a class. It is a forum. And you are new here. 

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
@daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

08/11/17 06:26:50PM

46 posts

Graham Old:
However, my feeling is that you completely misread the PT article. Yet, given your ROTFLing and idiot-calling, I am far from inclined to bother discussing it with you. What if your plumber had simply underappreciated what was said to them and had unfortunately lost the humility to learn new lessons?  You are right, this is not a class. It is a forum. And you are new here. 

Hi Graham,
Perhaps at first I didn't realize these forum boards are a little clique where (mostly) the same people support each other and others are given short shrift. Perhaps THAT is why these boards don't receive more exposure and helpful discussion--rather than the suggestion given that the reason is because some people were attacked on here.

Nevertheless, I am neither new to the profession nor new to the site. I don't know if the date of joining exists anywhere, but if it does you will see I most likely joined within the first year of it's existence. To be clear I was not ROTFLing at Barry. I was reacting to the Psychology Today article and a bit to the "vaunted" author. I went to great pains in suggesting the difficulties I have with the logic and conclusions in that piece. If you wish to post here where you think my analysis was wrong, I would welcome that discussion. That offer goes to anyone else reading this thread and my previous comments. THAT would be useful professional dialog! I LOVE reasoned arguments and if you or someone else can point out where my understanding of that article is incorrect that would be great! However, you took a pass on that opportunity. You are happy with just the criticism "my feeling is that you completely misread the PT article." And then, because I found some concepts in it humorous, you conclude that "I am far from inclined to bother discussing it with you." That's an interesting--and condescending--response, don't you think? I really don't understand how you could have a "feeling" that I misread it. My criticisms are either logical and well-founded or they are not. "Feelings" I don't think should come into this analysis at all!

My conclusion is that you don't really feel comfortable making your case, so in this most recent response attempt to elevate Barry's standing, and whisk off my reasoned arguments against what I believe is the key point of that article as just so much rubbish that you don't have time to deal with! This is true even though you have had the time to create 2,227 posts! Perhaps we are different, but if some "young whipper snapper" wises off to me and tries to show me where I am wrong, I am happy to point out the errors in his logic, analysis or knowledge. You have chosen not to do that. 

What I find most often with people who "don't have the time" to discuss/argue the facts with me is that they really are not as knowledgeable as they would like others to think they are. If you, or anyone else, can show me the error of my ways in my analysis of the PT article, i actually would like to read that! I am very inquisitive and have an open mind! THAT is why I started this thread.

I am disappointed in the responses.

Daniel

Inner Power Hypnosis & Coaching

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
@daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

08/11/17 06:39:55PM

46 posts

I just re-read most of the Psychology Today article and would like to highlight this paragraph that I originally found troubling and upon a second review, I still find it troubling.

"
Interestingly, both AA and the addiction treatment community as a whole realized this fact long before Alexander’s rat park experiment. In truth, the often parallel work of 12-step recovery programs and formalized addiction treatment programs — after the initial experience of detox — involves connecting the addict to other people. And not just any people, either. We’re talking about safe, supportive, reliable, empathetic people."

The author uses the "connecting addicts to other people" approach of AA and "the addiction treatment community" as support for his theory. Now, that logic would be valid IF and ONLY IF, those treatment approaches had a reasonable success rate, right? They do not! Ten percent long-term success (look it up) is generally reported and accepted.

So, no one else finds humor in the fact that a seeming nationally-recognized "expert" on addiction either doesn't know that, or is trying to pull the wool over the readers' eyes--by assuming most don't know the terrible track record of those failed approaches?

I rest my case.

Daniel

Inner Power Hypnosis & Coaching


VeniceStu
@venicestu

08/12/17 10:13:11PM

231 posts

I've never been so happy to be uneducated, to be able to see the forest through the

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
@daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

08/13/17 10:38:08PM

46 posts

The part that I should have noticed earlier, but didn't, was that the author of the Psychology Today article, who uses the (failed) approaches of major rehab facilities as support for his flawed theory actually has set up and supervised many of those programs!

"Robert Weiss LCSW, CSAT-S is Senior Vice President of National Clinical Development for Elements Behavioral Health. In this capacity, he has established and overseen addiction and mental health treatment programs for more than a dozen high-end treatment facilities including Promises Treatment Centers in Malibu and Los Angeles, The Ranch in rural Tennessee, and The Right Step in Texas."

So, he used his Psychology Today platform to provide more of a theoretical underpinning for the work he was already doing. Yet, his theory is flawed and if his explanation that addicts need more emotional connections were correct, then said rehab facilities and AA would have stellar track records! They do not!

I guess the magazine editors were just happy to add to the mainstream addiction services industry pack of lies. How sad!

Daniel

Inner Power Hypnosis & Coaching

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