Anxiety Treatment for Drug or Alcohol Abuse Patients

Created: 07/23/17 01:09:42PM by daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

Last Update: 09/15/17 12:21:44PM by Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
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H.Y.P.N.O.S.I.S.
@hypnosis

07/24/17 03:36:59PM

1,011 posts

What necessitates "mandatory" behavior? When she eats because she is genuinely hungry, this is based on the fulfillment of her compelling physical needs. Hypnosis is not offered to her for the cessation (or reduction) of eating what the body requires, however it can be used to "eliminate" certain "foods".

What motivates "optional" behavior? When one eats because it satisfies her palate, this is based on fulfillment of her desires. Because her emotions drive her behavior, adjustments can be made. How she feels is malleable, and hypnotherapy can be used to redirect her feelings about how or what she consumes.

What fully resolves any "undesired" behavior? By getting to the root issue (one of several major steps in the "healing of self event" - using regression hypnosis as a key component), there soon will no longer remain any presenting issue ("primary cause") or related concern ("secondary gain") to be dealt with. Mastering this method, albeit somewhat time consuming and advanced, is what I recommend to all professional hypnotists.

updated by @hypnosis: 07/24/17 03:41:28PM

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
@daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

07/25/17 12:12:18AM

46 posts

Graham and Barry,
Thanks for responding from your side of the pond! The Ericksonian approach is apparently way more popular in England than it is here in the USA. This is odd since Milton Erickson was an American! Also odd because the Erickson Foundation has an office/school right here in Phoenix. Yet, I never hear about them nor come across their graduates. Perhaps that is because here anyway they concentrate on healthcare professionals, and seem to require a graduate degree in a medical or related field to attend their training programs.

So, yes, my training and experience is in tune with a more "directed" approach to hypnotherapy. Our beliefs and approaches seem so disparate that we are almost speaking a different language! I suspect that with certain very resistant patients a more indirect approach could be useful. I do a little of that, but I don't think I am well suited to that approach. As is the case with many Americans, I tend to be quite pragmatic. I look for, and receive (generally) dramatic permanent results in just a few sessions. I gave you one of many, many examples in my ten years of full-time practice. I am guessing that your approach takes a lot longer and rarely has such dramatic results.

"A sense of significant human connection?" I am really trying to control myself here gentlemen, and abide by the rules of this site. However, as much as I try, I cannot fit my educational or professional experience into that paradigm. Now, I am sure Tony Robbins is brilliant and has some very good ideas. He certainly has made himself quite successful. However, we are not talking about a revered expert on mental health. I always found Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs interesting, and useful in understanding some behaviors, but my experience with anxiety and substance abuse can be explained in much simpler terms.

I believe that pretty much all human behavior has a cause. Mostly we don't understand the cause/reason, and often it will NOT be what the person says is the reason for their behavior, but there is a cause. Or, perhaps a secondary benefit for that action. So, a woman I am working with now who is morbidly obese and less than 30 years old, just happens to have a fit personal trainer for a husband and a mother who has always bugged her about her weight. There is no doubt in my mind that she is angry at both of them, but (so far) has had difficulty voicing that anger. So, what does she do to upset them both without taking responsibility for her actions? She gains around 10 pounds a year with no end in sight! All the while claiming "I don't eat much."

So, perhaps in my initial post I should have said secondary benefit rather than cause. In both cases these are coping mechanisms that in some aspects (subconscious) are ways of the inner child seeking relief or revenge. In any case, there is a connection. I can appreciate that the two of you don't see it. I just hope there are others on this site who do see it and understand what I am talking about! Considering the thousands of members to this site, it seems odd to me that I tend to see the same people respond.

And, by the way, what is arguably the most successful rehab facility in the United States (Passages Malibu) makes extensive use of hypnotherapy to unearth and heal the underlying reasons/benefits for the habit or addiction. It was started by a father and son team, while the son was an addict and went through many treatment programs where none of them ever seemed to wonder about the reasons behind his addiction! After many years of this type of unsuccessful treatment, they launched Passages which uses a multidisciplinary approach that seems to be achieving significantly better than average results. For the most part, most rehab facilities have a long term success rate of 10%.

I am a fan of approaches that work! Call me crazy! ;-)

Daniel

Inner Power Hypnosis

Graham Old
@graham-old

07/25/17 07:37:28AM

2,251 posts

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt:
Graham and Barry,Thanks for responding from your side of the pond! The Ericksonian approach is apparently way more popular in England than it is here in the USA. This is odd since Milton Erickson was an American! Also odd because the Erickson Foundation has an office/school right here in Phoenix. Yet, I never hear about them nor come across their graduates. Perhaps that is because here anyway they concentrate on healthcare professionals, and seem to require a graduate degree in a medical or related field to attend their training programs.

I was not responding as an Ericksonian, Daniel. The Ericksonian approach - if such a thing can be said to exist - is much wider than mere hypnotherapy. So, I suspect that it actually is more popular in the US, but is found in family therapy moreso than in hypnosis circles.
Quote: I am guessing that your approach takes a lot longer and rarely has such dramatic results.

Guess away.
Quote: "A sense of significant human connection?" I am really trying to control myself here gentlemen, and abide by the rules of this site. However, as much as I try, I cannot fit my educational or professional experience into that paradigm. Now, I am sure Tony Robbins is brilliant and has some very good ideas. He certainly has made himself quite successful. However, we are not talking about a revered expert on mental health. I always found Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs interesting, and useful in understanding some behaviors, but my experience with anxiety and substance abuse can be explained in much simpler terms.

You know, if you are trying to engage in healthy dialogue it may benefit you if you try to come across as a little less arrogant. Additionally, if it is that difficult for you to abide by the rules of the site, you might like to consider why. Many of us find it a perfectly easy thing to do and discuss things with people of divergent opinions all of the time.
Is it possible that if you cannot fit your educational or professional experience into the paradigm, then you simply need more education or experience?
I know next to nothing of Tony Robbins. I believe he's the guy in Shallow Hal? Nevertheless, my statement came neither from him or Maslow and more from some of the latest research into the nature of addiction.
Quote: Considering the thousands of members to this site, it seems odd to me that I tend to see the same people respond.

I am sorry that it seems so odd to you. Barry and I are two of the more active members of the forum. Yet, having said that, the forum is nowhere near as active as it once was, so you will not see thousands of responses. I responded because I have an interest in addiction. I cannot say why Barry did, the crazy anglo.
Quote: I am a fan of approaches that work! Call me crazy! ;-)

It is interesting to me that you call yourself a fan of approaches that work and yet this paradigm is so unknown to you. I would suggest you acquaint yourself with some of the more recent research into addiction. As a clue, if it includes stories about rehab then it may be a red herring as they are notoriously unsuccessful.
 

updated by @graham-old: 07/25/17 08:06:52AM

Roy Hunter
@roy-hunter

07/25/17 09:51:13AM

1,718 posts

The criticisms are not necessary...and are part of the reason for the slower growth of hypnothoughts.com over the last year or two. 

There are different ways to go from Los Angeles to New York, and the destination is more important then the journey. If the client is empowered, who cares whether the approach is Ericksonian, NLP, regression, parts, ego state therapy, etc.?

Barry Neale
@barry-neale

07/25/17 10:02:28AM

3,187 posts

Hi Daniel,

There is phrase that talks about the Americans and the British.

"Two nations divided by a common language"

And this is no more true than in this post.

On both of your replies to both of my posts you have totally misunderstood what I was talking about.

Now as a NLPer I am willing to accept my responsibility in that because one of the basic tenets of NLP is "the meaning of the communication is the response you get".

In your reply to my first post you totally missed the point of my post which was to agree with you that anxiety often drives addictions but I added that it is not the ONLY emotion to do so. And my point there for is that if you want to help with addictions you have to look at the underlying emotions and not the behavior and if you do that the addiction will take care of itself.

Then in your second reply to my second post you seem to think (God knows how?) that I am using an Ericksonian approach??? I never mentioned it at all....

I never mentioned an indirect approach at all.....

With regard to unmet needs, all Robbins has done streamlined Maslow's work into something that you can easily mentally track as you work with a client. Maybe if you researched Maslow's work you would understand Graham's comment about a significant human connection.

I am totally at a loss as to your reaction to both our comments.

BTW if you are wondering why there are so few posters left here at Hypnothoughts it's because so many people were getting sick and tired of being insulted when they commented on a post........

 

 

Roy Hunter
@roy-hunter

07/25/17 02:23:11PM

1,718 posts

Barry Neale:
...[snip] ...BTW if you are wondering why there are so few posters left here at Hypnothoughts it's because so many people were getting sick and tired of being insulted when they commented on a post........    

This is more true than many posters realize.

Barry Neale
@barry-neale

07/25/17 02:45:41PM

3,187 posts

Roy Hunter:
Barry Neale:...[snip] ...BTW if you are wondering why there are so few posters left here at Hypnothoughts it's because so many people were getting sick and tired of being insulted when they commented on a post........    
This is more true than many posters realize.

I know Roy, and you have been unjustly on the receiving end on more than one occasion.
I for one am glad to see that you still stop by every now and again.
regards
Barry
 

updated by @barry-neale: 07/25/17 02:46:08PM

Graham Old
@graham-old

07/25/17 03:04:28PM

2,251 posts

Quote:
Graham and Barry, Thanks for responding from your side of the pond! The Ericksonian approach is apparently way more popular in England than it is here in the USA.

Additionally, Daniel, please note that Barry and I are not saying the same thing. We have similarities in that we are both looking at things more holistically than your initial post seemed to do, but I am fairly confident that we think differently on this matter.
Barry is an NLPer, whilst I am not. I would be happy to be labelled a neo-Ericksonian, though that is more in my therapeutic work than in my hypnosis.
I do not tend to believe in the search for *the* root cause of a problem. I believe that human beings are far more complex than that. Each time a behaviour is enacted there are a series of causes at work. I guess at that point Barry would be interested in the trigger, whilst I sometimes would and sometimes would not.
I am surprised that these alternative perspectives are news to you, but like you imply, that may have a geographical cause. I find the nature of addiction to be fascinating and there is some interesting work taking place on both sides of the pond.
 

updated by @graham-old: 07/25/17 03:08:12PM

H.Y.P.N.O.S.I.S.
@hypnosis

07/26/17 07:54:11AM

1,011 posts

 
Unique presenting issues may be clouded by interference patterns, unresolved emotions
and a host of other maladies or conditions.
Many methods may be employed and effective.
With regards to ones "specialty" or "personal experience", ideas can be shared.
 
Cooperation not competition is what this forum needs for growth.
I agree with Roy...
Roy Hunter:
The criticisms are not necessary...and are part of the reason for the slower growth of hypnothoughts.com over the last year or two.  There are different ways to go from Los Angeles to New York, and the destination is more important then the journey. If the client is empowered, who cares whether the approach is Ericksonian, NLP, regression, parts, ego state therapy, etc.?

Daniel Oromaner, MBA, CCHt
@daniel-oromaner-mba-ccht

07/26/17 09:59:36AM

46 posts

Hi Graham,
Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response. I understand that at times I come across as somewhat arrogant. Sometimes it frustrates me when something I see as quite simple is difficult for others to see or accept. I am also disappointed that no one (so far) has chosen to address the young man I used in my initial example who completely stopped smoking marijuana after just a few sessions--none of which even touched directly on the drug use! Now it is possible that you and some of the others have experienced this type of rapid success with your approaches, but so far no one has given me examples of that success! As I said, I am a fan of what works! If anyone is interested in more examples, I have many, many similar cases.

In terms of alcohol abuse, I have on multiple occasions helped people who were drinking daily at least two bottles of wine or hard liquor in an even greater quantity and more on weekends to a place where they CHOSE to only have 2-4 drinks A WEEK! Now, so many in the addiction field would say that is impossible, yet I have done it many times and my teacher I'm sure has done it many, many more times than I have.

So, please, if someone else has experienced that type of success, please share it and your method. I don't need to read more theories or understand more theoretical concepts. I have had plenty of that during my time securing two degrees in psychology. If you want to see where I scored on my psychology Graduate Record Exam, just check the credentials page of my website.

What I seek here is either confirmation of what I have found, or someone who has a different approach that works as well or better! I do agree that most rehab facilities have a terrible track record and I believe I understand why. I also have had extensive conversations with the people at Passages Malibu, and shouldn't anyone who is working in the addiction field be interested in their approach and how they use hypnotherapy? Again, I have seen no remarks about that reference.

I apologize if there have been any misunderstandings. While I do not pretend to be an expert on the Ericksonian method, I am quite familiar with other non-directive forms of psychotherapy. If you look on my profile, you will see a long-ago photo of me with Dr. Carl Rogers. It was taken at the end of a 13-day training program he conducted. I also wrote my master's thesis with his work as a theoretical underpinning. He was a great man and a great thinker! Yet, I am no longer a fan. If anything, I am a somewhat believer in Gestalt Therapy and had been a client of one of the top therapists/teachers in NY for a number of years. This is not my first rodeo!

Thanks!
Daniel

Inner Power Hypnosis

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