What Would You Do If Someone Plagiarized Your Work?

Created: 08/19/17 09:13:43AM by barry-neale

Last Update: 09/08/17 02:50:05AM by Simon Tebbenham
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John Cleesattel
@john-cleesattel

08/22/17 09:58:30PM

3,176 posts

Graham Old:
Can I play Devil's Advocate? (I never do this, but I'm gonna play the A Card and say that I have aspergers. So, if I'm being insensitive here, please forgive me.) But... what's the issue? Is it that the original developer will lose out on recognition, or funds? Or is it that a lesser protocol will be shared in place of the genuine more superior product? I'm thinking of it like someone stealing a book and giving the PDF away as a torrent. If it's good stuff, don't we actually want it out there? Again, no offence meant. These are genuine questions, from an unaffected perspective.

That was how I justified it to myself, at least something that really works is out there and hopefully being used.

Barry Neale
@barry-neale

08/23/17 12:38:04AM

3,187 posts

Graham Old:
Can I play Devil's Advocate? (I never do this, but I'm gonna play the A Card and say that I have aspergers. So, if I'm being insensitive here, please forgive me.) But... what's the issue? Is it that the original developer will lose out on recognition, or funds? Or is it that a lesser protocol will be shared in place of the genuine more superior product? I'm thinking of it like someone stealing a book and giving the PDF away as a torrent. If it's good stuff, don't we actually want it out there? Again, no offence meant. These are genuine questions, from an unaffected perspective.

I understand what you saying Graham and no you are not being insensitive. In this issue the problem is that the person (JC) took the training and immediately demanded to be made a trainer, Now there is the option for someone to become a trainer in this process, but after they have a proven track record of client successes and if the originator thinks that they are suitable. This was all laid out before the training.
But this person didn't want to do that. If you know the person you will know that she is full of her own importance (thats a polite way of saying she is deluded) In her mind she is already the expert. So when someone said "no" to her she decided rebrand this process to "DrainThatPain" (I mean, really why would you call it that?) and then sell herself as the expert.
Since then she has been touting herself all over facebook and the NGH conference and now at Hypnothoughts.
And the point is, she has a habit of doing this. When this first blew I alerted several of my trainer friends in the UK about her and one of them said she had already done it with one of them.
If you read Kelly's post it is clear that she is building a reputation for this sort of thing. Now if she was really skilled and added things of value to the process and made it better you might think, Ok she has taken this and made it her own and improved on it. Well done.
But she hasn't. She doesn't understand the process, she has made it worse by adding stuff that is unnecessary and then is charging money to unsuspecting people for a worthless training.
And this is often the case with these kinds of people. They are not willing to put the time in to really master anything so they would rather cheat.
regards
Barry
 

Dave_I
@dave-i

08/23/17 02:07:59PM

533 posts

Simon Tebbenham:Who's JC?  There's a few JCs I admire - I hope it isn't one of the those big ones...


Hey Simon, not one of the big ones. If you look up "DrainThatPain" on Google, you'll see the JC being discussed is a "Lady" of "Trance." I've never met her and have only heard about this from online discussions, however it is pretty easy to put the pieces together as to the person being discussed if one were so inclined.

I am sort of curious how this plays out. It is one thing to take inspiration from somebody and make something your own, it is another to blatantly plagiarize. Of course, HTLive is going on as we speak, so it will be interesting if this catches up with her there or not as it sounds like more than a few people are aware of what's going on behind the scenes. Beyond that, I think Steven deserves recognition for that, for creating the process in the first place as well as for caring enough to not just give out trainer status to anybody. I think that legitimately helps to keep the quality higher, just in general terms. I am not as interested in vengeance as just giving credit where credit is due. I also have a vested interest in things getting out there that actually work, and not imitations that are inferior.

Brian Creekmore
@brian-creekmore

08/26/17 09:41:11PM

92 posts

OOPs, My Bad....

I have been here on HT for about four years after I quit studying at a narrow minded CHT program and quit because of funding.

In this time I have copied and pasted so many of all of your posts and discussions I can't tell you. Roy, Barry, Melissa, John, Micheal,..... I have learned so much from your shared information. John, I copied your whole website and read every word three times... I erased it over a year ago. Roy, I have read both of your books twice, Excellent. I bought them on amazon. Three years ago a member had posted a book in PDF that is part of the curriculum for one of the online schools here, I downloaded it quick... then bought the same book on amazon, Hardcover.. Melissa, Your book is beautiful. Along with Yappko's Trancework, and Ericksonian stuff you have inspired me to desire to be great as a hypnotist in my area 

And who started the "Free Breather Program"??  I use it for most of my smokers, with some variations. or was it me??

And I have watched Richard N's videos on youtube several times..

I read it here a few years ago "There hasn't been an original thought in the hypnosis community it twenty years, we just keep taking the same stuff, give it a few new phrases and package it like it was our own great intervention".

With all that said, and the fact that I have a once a month group Meetup for different issues. Every one of you should be upset with anyone whom takes your technique and call  it their own. I have always told my client that "I didn't originate any of this, and The techniques I am about to show you are time tested and proven to be most effective with these issues and conditions.

Simon Tebbenham
@simon-tebbenham

08/27/17 03:04:46AM

392 posts

I have MY protocols, as I'm sure we all do. Until a day comes where I decide to market them as my slant, they remain unnamed and are influenced from all sorts of people and their philosophies, and borrow techniques that probably go back to original creators, hundreds of years. 

I think if you sell a way of doing things, you have to expect people to take and reject parts of it and 'make it their own'. But it would be right to claim, as Brian says, that you 'didn't make this stuff up' - but I think also that you have taken inspiration from x, y and z. 

As an example, I love core transformation - but I've not embraced it fully nor become an official licensee - but I use it a lot and I actually think it helps my credibility by citing Andreas' work as massive inspiration. I take from it what I take - I bought the book, took the bits I liked and I wear the t-shirt. Same for Carson/Overdurf and the meta pattern, same for Jon Chase and hypnotic symbolism. I'm proud to name names which reveals reading, training and study behind my work. 

So if I came out with a course/protocol entitled 'Core Symbolism' and claimed it as my own (which it would sort of would be!) without reference to the inspiration behind it - I'd expect people to be pissed off. If I shared the inspiration behind it, I'd expect them to be, in part, happy, or even proud - even if I did botch their work up in their eyes! But that's evolution I guess.

Sharing is caring, as they say ;) - but seems stealing is appealing too!

Keep your eyes open for some of my future works...

Hypnotic Dart Technique
The Goose (though toying with 'The Duck' - which I'd have to do if Mr B came after me)
The Higher Mind Protocol

Also working on something really big, better than NLP, crazier than NAC...

TIT
Total Intuitive Transformation. 
With licenses for Specialists of my protocol (TITS) - with a top tier level of practitioners...TITS UP.

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

updated by @simon-tebbenham: 08/27/17 03:05:54AM

Barry Neale
@barry-neale

08/27/17 03:58:48AM

3,187 posts

Brian Creekmore:
OOPs, My Bad.... I have been here on HT for about four years after I quit studying at a narrow minded CHT program and quit because of funding. In this time I have copied and pasted so many of all of your posts and discussions I can't tell you. Roy, Barry, Melissa, John, Micheal,..... I have learned so much from your shared information. John, I copied your whole website and read every word three times... I erased it over a year ago. Roy, I have read both of your books twice, Excellent. I bought them on amazon. Three years ago a member had posted a book in PDF that is part of the curriculum for one of the online schools here, I downloaded it quick... then bought the same book on amazon, Hardcover.. Melissa, Your book is beautiful. Along with Yappko's Trancework, and Ericksonian stuff you have inspired me to desire to be great as a hypnotist in my area  And who started the "Free Breather Program"??  I use it for most of my smokers, with some variations. or was it me?? And I have watched Richard N's videos on youtube several times.. I read it here a few years ago "There hasn't been an original thought in the hypnosis community it twenty years, we just keep taking the same stuff, give it a few new phrases and package it like it was our own great intervention". With all that said, and the fact that I have a once a month group Meetup for different issues. Every one of you should be upset with anyone whom takes your technique and call  it their own. I have always told my client that "I didn't originate any of this, and The techniques I am about to show you are time tested and proven to be most effective with these issues and conditions.

Brian I understand what you are saying however there is a big difference here. If you learn someone and you test it out and make your own that's great. I am a big believer in Bruce Lee's quote  of "Absorb what is useful, discard what is not" but the assumption here with this quote is that you have taken the time to really test out what you have learned and made it your own. You have put it into practice and you have become the expert in your version of whatever it is and you have a proven track record of success.
If you have done that, then that's great and if you have done that with anything I have posted on here I would love to hear about it because that's how we all can learn. My friend Kevin Laye has a useful phrase, "none of us is as smart as all of us"
BUT
We are not talking about that in this instance. We are talking about someone with delusions of grandeur who attended a training and then when she wasn't granted immediate trainer status decided just two weeks later to teach someone else's materials, come up with a ridiculous name, and set herself up as an expert and then duping unsuspecting students out of hundreds of dollars.
Because when all is said and done, that's what this is about. Money and fame. This person is constantly trying to make a name for herself (she even had a failed attempt on Britain's Got Talent which was really cringeworthy) and to market new things to her list of students.
regards
Barry

Barry Neale
@barry-neale

08/27/17 07:01:01AM

3,187 posts

Peaceful like a horse.......... need I say more?

Kelley Woods
@kelley-woods

08/27/17 11:26:38AM

3,112 posts

Barry Neale:
Peaceful like a horse.......... need I say more?

Was that suggestion stolen from you, Barry?! hahaha

Fable Goodman
@fable-goodman

08/27/17 11:45:43AM

3,692 posts

Barry Neale:
Peaceful like a horse.......... need I say more?

Neigh Neigh and thrice neigh!
 

Fable Goodman
@fable-goodman

08/27/17 11:53:15AM

3,692 posts

Kelley Woods:
Barry Neale:Peaceful like a horse.......... need I say more?

Was that suggestion stolen from you, Barry?! hahaha

 
I think history will show Kelley,  that it is her own personal twist on my famous suggestion:
"you are going deeper and deeper... deeper like an elephant" (Goodman 1996)
Obviously I have copyright on the original phrasing, but being a creative genius, she changed the name of the animal (although this adds little or nothing  to the profound effect of the suggestion) and made it uniquely 'her own work'
 

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